On purchasing a monster truck

[Jon Cannon]

15 hours ago, CarCrusher said:

What do you mean a while back? Is he not building anymore?

A while back as in I haven't followed Monster Trucks that closely in years, he very well may still be building complete trucks but I haven't heard anything recently regarding that, there are many people around here that would know way more than me on the subject.

While a CRD and a Cohen may look similar, they were developed by two totally different people. Paul Cohen designed the Cohen and I believe was building them solely for Monster Jam up until recently, CRD is Carroll Racing Development, founded and owned by Tim Carroll. There have been MJ trucks that have run them but also many independents. Last time I heard Paul was building Cohen's for anyone and I'm sure some independents run them now. 

 

If any of this is wrong please correct me.

 

[maxdman]

2 hours ago, Jon Cannon said:

A while back as in I haven't followed Monster Trucks that closely in years, he very well may still be building complete trucks but I haven't heard anything recently regarding that, there are many people around here that would know way more than me on the subject.

While a CRD and a Cohen may look similar, they were developed by two totally different people. Paul Cohen designed the Cohen and I believe was building them solely for Monster Jam up until recently, CRD is Carroll Racing Development, founded and owned by Tim Carroll. There have been MJ trucks that have run them but also many independents. Last time I heard Paul was building Cohen's for anyone and I'm sure some independents run them now. 

 

If any of this is wrong please correct me.

 

You're correct.  I believe the most recent Cohens that have rolled out are Hurricane Force, Krazy Train, and Full Boar 2.0.  I believe both Team Over Bored trucks (not Wild Side obviously) are Cohen as well, no?

From what I recall, Cohen chassis have a vertical (perpendicular to the ground) piece of tubing support just behind the rear shock towers.  Cohen chassis have the same rear shock tower supports at an angle behind the rear shock mounts.  

[Nick Migues]

So while a lot of those trucks resemble Cohens, they are actually built by Edy Majaka (idk if that’s how you spell it) I’m not sure if he works for Cohen or what, but I know Edy built both Overbored/Black Pearl and Hurricane Force. Edy is also currently crew chief for Team Overbored. As far as building the truck yourself it’d probably be around the same price as buying turn key, but I guess personally building the truck yourself gives you the option to build the truck exactly how you want it- which when you have a lot of experience in this business like I do, you know all kinds of little things you’d want to do but I think the biggest thing as someone new is that you have to learn the truck so you should just built it yourself. Plus it helps you to learn what all parts you need, and where to get them as well. Chassis wise it varies by price but I think a bare PEI chassis with shock mounts, lexan tabs, 4 link tabs and all the cages/guards that fit that chassis is around 15-17 I believe or maybe a little more now. CRD has a pretty cool deal, you can actually purchase a lot of basically the chassis but not built, and instructions on how and where to put each bar and such. Of course you’d want to be a good welder if you’re going to take that route. When it comes to monsters there’s a million and one different little things you can do to your truck, and honestly it’s hard to pinpoint exactly what you’re wanting to know without knowing what it is that you want to build. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the new Bad Company is also one of those Edy/Cohen chassis. 

[Jon Cannon]

Speaking of purchasing ready to go monster trucks, Tim Mente just posted this around half an hour ago. 

[CarCrusher]

@Jon Cannon Sweet! Is that a PEI?

I don’t mean to browbeat y’all with questions, but I do have a few more.

As far as engines, who builds them? Where are they purchased? Forgive me for being ignorant.

When it comes to the various professional chassis out there (PEI, Concussion, Cohen, CRD, etc.), what seems to be the best handling chassis for more of a racing-oriented truck? One that handles, jumps/lands well, and puts the power to the ground better? I know shocks are a big part, but I’m definitely looking to build a truck that races better than it freestyles. I’m much more interested in tuning, setup, running tons of test runs, and getting the truck dialed for handling and speed than I am hitting slap-wheelies and such. 

 

 

 

 

[Nick Migues]

2 hours ago, CarCrusher said:

@Jon Cannon Sweet! Is that a PEI?

I don’t mean to browbeat y’all with questions, but I do have a few more.

As far as engines, who builds them? Where are they purchased? Forgive me for being ignorant.

When it comes to the various professional chassis out there (PEI, Concussion, Cohen, CRD, etc.), what seems to be the best handling chassis for more of a racing-oriented truck? One that handles, jumps/lands well, and puts the power to the ground better? I know shocks are a big part, but I’m definitely looking to build a truck that races better than it freestyles. I’m much more interested in tuning, setup, running tons of test runs, and getting the truck dialed for handling and speed than I am hitting slap-wheelies and such. 

 

 

 

 

If you’re wanting something for racing, a CRD or a David Smith chassis would probably be best, they sit low and run well, but there’s a lot more that goes into it, shock angle, your shock tuning, etc. It’s hard to give you a definite answer for a hypothetical truck lol. And engines for most People is just a somewhat local race engine shop, definitely want a place good with blower motors. Usually you order the parts you want, and they build it. Also on a chassis you do want to be careful on how you set it up, the lower you set it up it can make the truck harder to jump. A good example I use is my uncle, Darren owns 2 old gen high motor PEIs, and because the CG is so high they get off the ground with a lot less effort, vs the CRD Bounty Hunter he built when he worked for Creten, which sat much lower, he said you had to drive the truck a lot harder to make it jump the way you wanted. Also, tuning the truck in the way you want it exactly takes a lot of time and small adjustments, because there’s no telling what shocks will do. When I worked for Darren we set Jailbird and Nitro Menace at the same ride height, same pressures in the shocks, same shocks and same valving inside of the shocks. Nitro Menace drove and landed like a dream, while Jailbird just bounced off the ground like the shocks weren’t even moving when the truck hit the ground. Hopefully this is makes some sense lol. Oh and no that Storm Damage is a J&B chassis, dont believe they are doing them anymore that I know of. They built that storm Damage, the silver chassis that was Earth shaker/Hurricane Force last year and is now Fire Zombie/Storm damage, and they also built the green Stinger chassis and the Master of Disaster chassis.

[Outlawed]

@Jon Cannon @NitroMenace @maxdman @CarCrusher
I hope to not come across as a know it all but if anyone cares for some learning:

The original CRD chassis was based off Adam Anderson's Taz chassis (which was a "inhouse" chassis built at the digger shop). Depending on your POV, there have been 3-4 revisions to Carroll's chassis since it has debuted. Basically all of the revisions were to remove problematic areas that were over engineered and make them simplistic to fix or repair.
FELD Inhouse chassis's have had alot of revisions since the original crop of chassis's. Mostly to stuff you cannot really see by eye (tube sizing and wall thickness). Bracing philosophy changed over the years but the relative shape has remained untouched. 
Once Paul left FELD he started his own metal fab shop, he has built the current Fullboar and Over Bored chassis (I have photos of another possible chassis he has built but I have not seen anything that matches it).
Eddie Mikjas is also a name that has surfaced offering inhouse clones (he has a few distinct traits in bracing vs FELD or Paul).  Krazy Train, Black Pearl, Hurricane Force and Bad Company 2 are Eddie's work currently running, with another chassis sitting at Vaters shop unbuilt (you can see it in Mikeys video blogs) .

Realistically they are all basically the same as they are based off of a similar wheelbase

If you want a visual (I do not have a Eddie or Paul uploaded on there but you can atleast get the idea)
Inhouse
https://p3d.in/bUYhK

Gen 1 CRD
https://p3d.in/RMURA

[CarCrusher]

Thanks @Outlawed and @NitroMenace for the thorough info! Don’t worry about seeming like a know-it-all. That’s what I’m looking for is know-it-alls to educate my know-it-none a**!

I guess for me it’s down to CRD or PEI. I like the look of both. 

Say, I love those pdfs you attached! That brings me to another thing I’ve been wondering. I came here strictly to talk about monster trucks. I know nothing about this computer game y’all play where you design the trucks and race them etc. I was just wondering, is that program also good to use for designing trucks you’re actually going to build?

[Nick Migues]

@Outlawed Ah, okay. Thanks for the info! Always good to learn

[CarCrusher]

Again, forgive my ignorance, but I’m the type of guy who likes to “cut the Gordian knot” so to speak. What I mean by that is I like to find shortcuts and easier routes to get what I want rather than spen so much time and energy doing it the hard way. So with that said, when it comes to engines, why couldn’t I just order something like this from Summit https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-ps5401ct/make/chevrolet and then send it to a performance shop to have the mods and horsepower put into it? 

The engines have to run off methanol right? Is there a particular type of motor I’m looking for?

[Nick Migues]

59 minutes ago, CarCrusher said:

Again, forgive my ignorance, but I’m the type of guy who likes to “cut the Gordian knot” so to speak. What I mean by that is I like to find shortcuts and easier routes to get what I want rather than spen so much time and energy doing it the hard way. So with that said, when it comes to engines, why couldn’t I just order something like this from Summit https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mll-ps5401ct/make/chevrolet and then send it to a performance shop to have the mods and horsepower put into it? 

The engines have to run off methanol right? Is there a particular type of motor I’m looking for?

Well the problem with that motor right there is that it’s only rated for 670 HP. Yes the trucks run off methanol, and super chargers. A super charger basically shoves more air into the engine so you need to build an engine with internals(crankshaft, pistons, etc.) that can handle 1300+HP  and honestly you’d probably spend more money rebuilding that crate motor than you would having someone just build the correct motor to begin with 

[CarCrusher]

29 minutes ago, NitroMenace said:

Well the problem with that motor right there is that it’s only rated for 670 HP. Yes the trucks run off methanol, and super chargers. A super charger basically shoves more air into the engine so you need to build an engine with internals(crankshaft, pistons, etc.) that can handle 1300+HP  and honestly you’d probably spend more money rebuilding that crate motor than you would having someone just build the correct motor to begin with 

Not to sound snarky, but I know how engines and superchargers work. I’ve driven and worked on heavy machinery since I was in grade school. I’ve got my private pilot license, which requires you to know every part of the plane and how it works, including the powerplant. The difference in planes versus cars is that a plane requires you to know how engines work in very exact detail. For example, you have to know how to adjust fuel-air mixture on the fly for different density altitude levels, and you have to know how to set RPM in relation to manifold pressure right from the cabin, and stuff like that. Aircraft engines have to be run precisely with a fine knowledge of what’s going on at all times or else big problems can occur. I’ve also built a few jeeps for creek riding. The only things I might not know are the particular options, brands, and parts people tend to use on MT engines. I understand they use a twin magneto system just like a plane rather than running a standard distributer or coil packs. I just don’t know what parts choices are commonly used. That is what I would have to find out if I were to price a motor. 

[CarCrusher]

...

[RKM]

It's likely cheaper to buy the parts and build it yourself provided you have the space and knowledge to do so which would be useful regardless if you had prior knowledge or not so you'd have some kind of idea how to work on it because let's face it, it will break at some point no matter what.  I don't really have a lot to add that would be of value since I've been more of a casual follower the past few years but I haven't seen anything mentioned about a plan to move the truck around to events once built. I do find it quite nice to have an actual discussion about the inner workings of the trucks here though since most of the older places with that sort of information have fallen off or been replaced by Facebook groups. Good luck and do keep us posted as I'm sure a lot of people here would be interested in seeing it come together.  You've probably already found links to some of these but these are just the ones I can remember. (ps don't forget about safety)

http://samson4x4.com/pei/

http://www.crdmfg.com/

http://www.racesourceinc.com/

http://www.racesourceinc.net/shop/

https://www.ouversonusa.com/

Only thing I have to add is I'm mildly disappointed not a single mention was given to Racesource but that's more of a personal preference.  

[Nick Migues]

Correct, most MTs use a single MSD Pro billet mag and points box rather than the standard distributor system because the mags generate a lot more power. I wasn’t trying to take anything away from you, was just trying to show ya the best thing I would think to do for your engines, and wasn’t sure what you knew lol. Personal I recommend Dart blocks or Merlin’s and the internals is really up to you but it’s not hard to find parts there are tons of manufacturers making performance parts. Main point being you want to find the best parts you can and while it takes a lot of money use the best parts you can or you’ll spend hours chasing constantly broken parts