4.5.1 Syracuse

[Outlawed]

If we are going to continue on the path of generalization, how come you have not tried to help then? 

[Helen Weales]

Had a few minutes to work on this before bed -- four new text files with info copied and pasted from the old terrn. and there it is. I think this format might actually be simpler than the old one. I want to work out a few things (haven't looked into how to add mud) and then I'll make a post explaining how to do this. With proper instructions and a bit of knowledge of the old format, it should take no more than a few minutes to complete the conversion for a simple track such as this one.

[rockgod88]

I converteded a few tracks over to .4.5

 

Wf16 

Wf13

Pprl Wf3

[RKM]

Learn, your, and grammar were misspelled on purpose.

I didn't say that you had to give them a step-by-step tutorial on how to do it. But at least point them in the right direction instead of complaining about it.

Sadly as much as we all wish new members had the ambition to want to learn how to create things including many of us offering to help them or try point them in the right direction it often far rarer for it to actually work out the way you describe. Usually it leads to having your PM inbox spammed with requests for a month if not longer or multiple threads asking for the same thing. I'm all for helping people learn or making tutorials since a lot of them were deleted during a site software upgrade.

Things to remember about creating content for RoR version 0.3X.XX+

1. Blender is not as easy to use as you think it is
2. Blender will crash at the absolute worst times
3. You will come to loathe there being no way of lining most things up other than to go back and forth from file to game to check
4. Your game will crash repeatedly for absolutely no reason at all
5. Contrary to popular belief, most of us do try to help those willing or expressing interest to learn but don't ask us to completely do something for you. One of my personal ways to try and help people learn is to give them a few options to try to figure out which works best for them so they're largely learning on their own instead of having someone do something for them which usually misses the learning process entirely for certain things.
6. Do not expect what you see from Rockcrwlr, Johan, Fern etc for your first creation. We all start somewhere but the hard part is getting new people started.

 

As far as the spam comment that was made earlier, this thread was created AFTER the 0.4.X thread he made which included several posts of his own being 4-6 in a row which does indeed classify as spam just to clarify.

 

Reasons for not upgrading since this topic will never die.

1. Every version of RoR is very unstable, as most of you have found out
2. The entire reason we moved from MTM2 to RoR was for better physics
3. I've been pushing for stand alone trucks since the V3 super pack project and it's only now catching on
4. The lack of servers for all versions was/is still a pretty large issue and not everyone can host a private one, there was a time when only 2 people could even host private servers out of the entire RoR monster truck community in the past
5. Most use a controller of sorts now but a reason for not upgrading in the past was the fact that using the keyboard to drive was extremely slow and very difficult in certain situations (and still is in post 0.37.117 versions) but at the time nearly everyone used the regular keyboard controls to race
6. When leagues first started 0.37.XXX was still considered very new then once 0.38 rolled out there was a new version almost every 1-2 weeks
7. Most of us are in favour of upgrading to newer versions but it's not really worth upgrading to a new version when a large portion of the content on the site is already extremely outdated (one of the reasons I kept pushing for stand alone was to make future upgrading easier, I believe I was the first one to release a completely stand alone truck on the site as well)
8. I'm sure there are plenty of other things as well but most of them have been outdated or improved upon

Request threads are fine but there is also no guarantee it will be completed or even started, I've seen entire pages filled with the same request in the past and have had several spammed into my PM inbox on here and while it's not much of a problem anymore it can still be annoying to some when there are. If there is a request thread for something you want already made reply to that thread to get more interest and get it noticed versus making one or several asking for the same thing. The search function is a bit dumb right now but it still has a purpose that most people forget about.

[Elias]

ya every version has its problems, .37 has lag problems, .38 not all trucks work as good as .37,idk what is wrong with .39 but im guessing its the same as .38, it would be nice to move to .4.2 but it would be a lot more work than lower versions, i would like to see 4.2 become the main version than .37 but its a lot more work for people to do that they dont want to do.

[1029Eric]

ya every version has its problems, .37 has lag problems, .38 not all trucks work as good as .37,idk what is wrong with .39 but im guessing its the same as .38, it would be nice to move to .4.2 but it would be a lot more work than lower versions, i would like to see 4.2 become the main version than .37 but its a lot more work for people to do that they dont want to do.

4.5.1 not 4.2

[Elias]

4.5.1 not 4.2

lol sorry im stupid 

[1029Eric]

It is fine, I am glad to welcome new members and give kind corrections!

[Helen Weales]

This track has been converted and it now works with every RoR version. I'm just waiting for maxdman's approval to upload this, either separately, or add the four new text files to his release. I'm not sure how this process usually occurs.

[Helen Weales]

Yes, literally took 10 minutes, and that was only because I was being careless and had to redo the process twice. Not sure what type of problems others were having, but I suspect some who claim to have tried the conversion never actually did.

[Zach Nicholas]

Yes, literally took 10 minutes, and that was only because I was being careless and had to redo the process twice. Not sure what type of problems others were having, but I suspect some who claim to have tried the conversion never actually did.

Yeah, I got it right the first time I did it, in like 5-10 minutes. After trying to convert a 2nd track I spent a long time wondering why it wouldn't work, and it turned out it doesn't need the *insert track*.otc file. At least, mine worked that way. When I had everything the way the tutorial explained, it would crash when loading the terrain.

[RKM]

 

 

This last point here; I'm all for discussing things about spamming, but in that thread. This thread is a request thread, not an "air your grievances about another thread" thread. All of this "spam" talk should be discussed in the thread that it originated from. This is the first and only thread that I know of for this track on 0.4.5.1.

The only reason I mentioned the spam bit in this thread is because you yourself and Hot Shoe both brought it up before anyone else did so I added it to the things I was addressing as it was relevant to this thread as well.

 

Also if you actually read the entirety of my post, specifically where I mention spam in general. It is extremely relevant to the entire requests section of this site.

Edited January 5, 2016 by RKM

[Helen Weales]

You should be getting better FPS. Using .4.5 boosted mine by 20-30. I'm getting 117 in Syracuse while I was only getting 89 max using 39.5. The trick is to set shadows to the texture option, you'll gain a massive boost with seemingly no difference in graphics. At least not one that I can see, but maybe it's more evident in normal outdoor terrains.

[Hot Shoe]

I never brought up anything about spam lol.

 

This last point here; I'm all for discussing things about spamming, but in that thread. This thread is a request thread, not an "air your grievances about another thread" thread. All of this "spam" talk should be discussed in the thread that it originated from. This is the first and only thread that I know of for this track on 0.4.5.1.

So you did bring up the topic of spam. Am I missing something?

 I had stated before, no one else had asked for this track to be switched over to 0.4.5.1 before, so technically, this thread isn't spam.

Since it seems you enjoy analyzing everything, here's something else: I never claimed THIS THREAD was spam. When I made my spam comment, it was referring to Eric having came in from out of nowhere, and initially start posting about "his suggested" switch to 0.4.5. Some posts were made in quick, rapid fire succession, showing an apparent lack of knowledge of how the edit button works. Then this post shows up a mere two hours or so after a posting in another thread concerning the same subject.

Now while this IS a different part of the forum, and he did at least use the proper request form for his listing, it still concerned the overall topic of wanting to see a track converted to 0.4.5. At that time, it had been clearly stated and explained by RKM, Outlawed, and myself the rigors and trials of a conversion/upgrade to 0.4.5., and how that version was unexplored.

Now if you'd like to dissect what I consider spam: the bashing in of one's head to the same wall repeatedly on the same subject. Up until that point, Helen had just stepped in sharing their knowledge of converting tracks to 0.4.5. Again, at the time, it had been clearly stated that as a whole, 0.4.5. is not supported by the content creators of the site, that said version was unexplored, and that the reason no tracks existed within that version was due to that fact, along with the fact that very little people had a reason to convert tracks to that version. Yet, even after all these explanations and reasons given, Eric continued to incessantly insist on posting about the matter. Some posts again being in quick succession of another. At the time, not only can it be considered to be some form of spam, but also, the definition of insanity. 

The only thing that's bad about 0.4.5.1 is the decrease in optimization. But if everyone didn't have ass computers, it wouldn't be a problem like it isn't to me. I still get at least 60fps constantly and I'm using a $300 laptop.

You've just hit upon another excellent point as to why a switch to a newer version hasn't happened yet. Not every one is as privileged to be able to have machines capable of operating the newer versions of RoR as others. I am a bit on the fence with this: one does not simply expect to play a PC game if the PC is sub par. On the other hand, for the casual, virtual monster truck fan who just wants to enjoy the simulation, participate in leagues, etc., maybe their "sub par" machine is all they have? If the community decided on an upgrade, then that would leave some users out of all of the fun. It might be easy to say "upgrade your machine." "Get a newer computer." However, to lower income users/families who might not be able to afford a newer machine, or at the very least be able to afford a better machine for themselves/their child/children, some users WILL be left out. While I do understand that progression can't be halted because of a few users being unable to upgrade, there is also the thought of trying to make things accessible to everyone.

Now I'm not trying to start another discussion with the above statement that would risk veering off in to oblivion (as some topics seem to do, as this topic has done to an extent). I'm simply trying to list all of the possibilities/reasons to broaden the outlook. I know from experience what it's like to participate in online, pc gaming with a lackluster machine. When I first started participating in MTM2 leagues, I was on the family machine, which happened to be the very first computer my family ever bought: a Windows 98 SE, Pentium II, utilizing a 56k dial-up modem!

BTW: what is this "decrease in optimization" that you speak of? You're the first person (that I know of) to mention this. I find it curious that the version some would like to UPGRADE to has a claimed "DECREASE in optimization." Elaborate. Is the optimization worse than versions 0.37/0.38/0.39, or better in some respects to that of another?

(For the record: I'm not being facetious. It's a legitimate question.) 

0.4.5. still seems to be unexplored. Tracks seem easy enough to convert. Trucks on the other hand still sound like they would need adjustments to work properly if gearing is off, trucks lean too much in to a turn, etc. If the trucks are off in any characteristic, then the choice is either to do yet another patch job to the same tired old manipulated truck file(s), or start from scratch. Just because the trucks might happen to function within 0.4.5. doesn't mean they function to their intended end result. It just means that there are some toys to play with in the sandbox. Until 0.4.5. is strongly considered as a viable upgrade for our intended use, there is no reason for the ENTIRE community to make the switch. Not with tracks still needing to be converted, truck files needing adjustment, the possibility of some user being left out...do we even know if multiplayer functions in this version so it can be utilized for leagues/fun runs?

Don't get me wrong: I'm ALL FOR an upgrade if it is feasible. If that is the direction for the community, then I will offer any assistance I can to make the switch happen. I was not for enabling a couple of users (one who broke forum rules before igniting the 0.4.5 discussion, one who's done nothing but post about WANTING tracks in 0.4.5 since their arrival) to get what they sought.

If any good can come of this, it's that Helen has kindly stepped forward to share knowledge of the version in question. Yet, before a full scale upgrade is considered or even put in to action, it'll take a lot more than one, two, or a few content creators to make it happen, and make it happen to the desired outcome.

(Apologies for the post being long-winded. I obviously had numerous thoughts on the subject(s) that parlayed in to one post.

[Hot Shoe]

 

Apparently it's not hard, as 5 (that I know of) tracks have been converted in less than a day.

As I stated in my post you quoted me in: AT THE TIME no one knew the rigors of the process BEFORE Helen came along. This was before Helen announced converting a track and providing a tutorial on the process. Now we know it takes about 10 minutes and some additional files to make a track work.

 

Dude, if we waited on everyone to upgraded PCs, we would still be running MTM2 on WIndows 98. Surely you can't be serious about a VERY cheap $300 upgrade.

Dude, for some, a VERY cheap $300 upgrade might be a stretch on the bank account. As I said: it's a bit of a cross between not letting some people's inability to upgrade halt progress, while also having to face the fact that some might be left behind.

I don't know if you've seen my post in the Off Topic section about building my dad a PC, but if you haven't, you should check it out. It should give you an indication that I, too, have dealt with lackluster equipment and couldn't even run in big leagues because of it.

I don't have enough time in my schedule to read every single post or topic made on this site. So no, I haven't seen it. However, I have no reason to doubt you. Back then, everyone's pc was lackluster compared to what we have now.

Trucks act the EXACT same as they do on 0.38+. It's way past-due for an upgrade. We can't stay on 0.37 for all of our lives.

It has been stated, maybe not in this topic, perhaps the other 0.4.5 topic, that trucks lean over too much going in to turns, and that the gearing is off in various trucks. I myself recently downloaded 0.39.5 and noticed an immediate difference to the suspension and grip levels of trucks, than that of 0.37.126. I plan to do a little exploration on 0.4.5. for my own curiosity. 

It is feasible, and it's been a long time coming; too long, actually. I know I haven't posted much before, but I've been lurking and keeping my ear to the ground since late 2012 with RoR. Haven't been talking much; just been seeing how things played out. And it is WAY past-due for an upgrade. I know it'll take more than the 5 tracks that are already converted. But at some point, we have to try. We can't sit here and blame the game when it's the lack of passion from you guys that's holding us back.

LACK OF PASSION. You consider it a lack of passion that has caused us to get stuck in place? Have you any idea of the amount of work that goes in to the physics, modelling, testing, and r&d of making at least ONE truck? Ignore the amount of work and effort that went in to the V3 or V4 packs, or how much effort the track makers put in to making replica venues, or the more recent releases of tr?cks/physics/tutorials, etc. It's the lack of passion that's frozen the community in place.

These guys are not contracted, forced, or payed to make content for this game. At it's core, this is a hobby. It's a game. It's meant to be played for fun. People do what they can, within their given schedules, and life situations to produce the content that they make. Yes they do take on quite a level of responsibility and expectation when they decide to commit to projects/content such as what is on this site. But again, it's not their job, and no one forces them to do it.

I'm not sure how feasible it is, or what time frame can be considered for a proper switch to another version, to at least get things on their feet, and have a good platform to launch off of. Some creators responsible for the content within these packs or tracks either no longer play the game, or don't have enough time in their schedule to contribute. There is only a handful of creators that are active on this site that could contribute to a proper upgrade. Still, that is an incredibly long, difficult process that you're expecting these guys to take on. There might be a few more people who could attempt to pitch in and ease the burden, but it'd still be a long ways off before a full scale upgrade could be sought through to somewhat of an immediate completion. Much less future endeavors down the line.

I'm not saying we should be stuck on 0.37 forever. But let's be realistic: a proper upgrade or switch to another version would not be an overnight process . Not if the creators wish for it to be done properly.

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by Hot Shoe